Classé and Simaudio preamps
February 25, 2009
Editor,
I have been privileged to listen to Dynaudio Temptations
with Simaudio Moon W-8 and P-8 and the top-of-the-line Moon Andromeda CD player -- great
sound.
I noticed at one time you had all three of these pieces in
your system and read your review of these pieces. Later I noticed that you lost
the amplifier and kept the preamp.
In Stereophile magazine Kal Rubinson said of his
W-8 that he felt it had a midbass warmth/hump.
I have also read your
colleagues review of the Classé CP-700, and I am wondering why you have not
paired it with the Classé Omega Omicron Monos. I am a believer in using the preamp and
amp from the same manufacturer, even though admittedly some manufacturers are better at
their amps than they are with the preamps. Still, the idea is to hopefully have the sound
cut from the same cloth and avoid possible poor interactions between preamp and amp (such
as high output impedance from the preamp and low input impedance in the amp).
I hope you will at some point in the near future address
the questions that follow: The Classé CP-500 preamplifier retails at $4000 and the
Classé CP-700 preamplifier retails at $8000.
First, please know that I am not into specsmanship per
se. Although the CP-700 shows a S-to-N rating that is quieter, the overall specs are
not much different. When I wrote to the manufacturer I received the following:
They are also profoundly different. The CP-500 design
places an emphasis on integrated circuits (ICs), which are microchips. The ICs deployed in
the CP-500 are very high quality and designed for audio applications but they have
specific functions, which cannot be modified by our engineers. In the CP-700, many of
these ICs are replaced by discrete circuits which have been specially designed by our
engineers. This approach is more cost intensive but it gives our engineers more freedom to
influence the quality of the sound. The CP-700 amplification section is an example of
this. It is a pair of boards that replace two ICs in the CP-500 and which are considered
to be among the highest performing boards we have ever built. The CP-700 also makes more
sophisticated use of balanced circuitry, and has three buffers (one for single ended, one
for Balanced 1 and another for Balanced 2) thus keeping the single-ended and balanced
paths entirely independent. The CP-500 has only one buffer, so the signal goes to either
balanced or single ended. These fundamental differences result in different sounding
products, with the CP-700 considered the better of the two.
Can upgraded parts make such a difference in sound? I know
there is a whole cottage industry that upgrades gear with better caps, etc., but I hope
you will test these pieces (the Classé CP-700 and Classé CP-500) ) and possibly the
Classé CA-M400 mono blocks as well some time in the future. John Atkinson wrote that the
P-7 and P-8 share almost the same circuitry; the Classé scenario is different and I would
very much appreciate it and I believe your readers would like to see if what I received in
writing was mere salesmanship or a reality wherein parts upgrades are worth twice the
price.
Your impressions of the P-8 versus the Classé CP-700 if
you have heard it would really be appreciated for I am considering the Classé CA-M400
monoblocks and of course feel that the CP-700 would be the natural match, but I am in no
position to pair the P-8 with it at a dealer for there is no single Classé and Simaudio
dealer, meaning someone who has both together under the same roof.
Christopher Frank
I think youll find that the Simaudio and Classé
flagship preamps share at least one trait with each other when compared to their
lesser-expensive siblings within the same line: they both have been built with a near
cost-no-object mentality that takes certain design elements deemed important by their
respective designers and carries them to their logical extreme. The Classé example that
you cite is a good case in point. Going from integrated circuits to discrete circuits is
far more than just a parts upgrade. It is a fundamentally more complex approach that
requires far more time investment in the engineering process. The balanced circuitry also
requires a vast increase in parts count and even more engineering time and expertise. The
Simaudio P-8 is also quite different than the P-7 if you look closely. For instance, the
volume control in the P-8 is, according to Simaudio, much more costly to implement and
quite a bit better in actual performance. As well, the two-box P-8 solution versus the
one-box P-7 is also designed to take performance to another level. This is not to say that
youll always hear these improvements in every system: the higher resolution your
system is to begin with the more revealing these better components will be.
As for my system, I simply felt that the P-8 was the
best preamp Id ever heard, whereas the W-8 amplifier was simply among the
best. And subsequent to my review, Simaudio introduced the W-7M mono amps, which are now
their top-of-the-line. Typically I agree that having a preamp and amp from the same
company makes the most sense. Ive said that same thing many times. In this case,
however, I think the strengths of the Omicron Monos as paired with the P-8 preamp are
simply exceptional. I doubt there is a bad match between any of the components you are
considering, and I cant tell you which youd find the most satisfying over the
long term. What I can tell you is that both Classé and Simaudio are outstanding
companies, and I consider their products in a select group that ranks as the best solid
state available. Good luck in your decision....Jeff Fritz
Music system for a music lover
February 19, 2009
To Albert Bellg,
I am serious about music but not an audiophile, so guidance
from an expert would be appreciated.
I have old speakers being repaired, an old Adcom system at
home for 20 years, and Im ready to move up. I heard a Parasound Halo system
yesterday in combination with speakers handmade by Ray of the Speaker Factory in
Gaithersburg, Maryland. I was really impressed by the sound and also the setting, as I
didn't feel like I was in a showroom and being pressured.
So I was a little disappointed that you felt that classical
music might not be best served by Parasound, although maybe it can't be reproduced by any
system that I would feel comfortable buying. Is your negative assessment too trivial for
me to worry about, even if classical is a big part of our collection?
Ray also made me think about what it means to listen to
music that isn't coming from iPods or digitized sound systems. Is this mode dying with the
100,000 aging audiophiles left in the country? I was actually thrilled by the sound I
heard from this equipment, but I am not sure that anyone but me will even notice, since
music is mainly background or mood making or there to remind of a melody to most people.
Neal Young
PS: And although it may be obvious, just two more thoughts:
1. People like me may value music enormously, even play
instruments seriously, but buy equipment every several decades and either cannot or do not
one want to become audiophiles -- and therefore are absolutely dependent on the world of
experts!
2. We mainly cannot feasibly do head-to-head comparisons of
infinite combinations of amps, tuners, preamps, etc. Instead, we make decisions on
inadequate information. We may hear something really good but not know if it is the
"best," even for us. The cost differences are substantial. In the absence of
confidence, too many choices lead to no decisions. Thats bad because we may miss out
one of modern life's great and relatively easy pleasures, and presumably bad also for
those who sell the really good stuff.
Please don't doubt your own ears! Everyone hears audio
gear a bit differently, and, just to make it even more complicated, the different things
that we hear are more or less important to different people. I am more than usually
sensitive to the timbres of acoustical music, but someone else (you, for instance) may be
perfectly delighted listening to classical and other music on gear that I hear as a little
"off."
Parasound equipment in general gets very positive
reviews, and the JC 2 preamp I reviewed was one of the most impressive pieces of audio
gear that I've ever heard on many of the dimensions that matter. As I noted in my review,
I almost bought it -- and if I had, I'm sure I'd be enjoying it a lot. If you like what
you hear when you listen to it, that's all that really matters.
I presume that your other question relates to the
question of vinyl vs. the rest of the audio sources. Again, if you are
"thrilled" by what you hear, that's the answer to your question. Vinyl is
enjoying a resurgence in the market due to the significantly better turntables that are
now available. But even if it were in decline, why let the behavior of the audio market or
people who listen to music as "background" compromise your own listening
experience? The final judge of your audio system is your own ears -- buy the gear that
makes them happy.
By the way, kudos to Ray Indris at the Speaker Factory,
who reports on his website that he's been in business since 1959. He's the sort of audio
builder and retailer who's becoming more and more scarce in our hobby, but who contributes
an understanding of audio that is invaluable and irreplaceable. It sounds like he had some
good ideas and suggestions for you, and is willing to work with you to develop a system
you like. He may be your solution to "the paralysis of analysis" in buying a new
system, and you could do a lot worse than working with someone of his experience! Good
luck and best wishes....Albert Bellg
"Thanks for leading the way"
February 13, 2009
Editor,
The Chris Lang photos are, as you said, superb. One
suggestion: Add a "slideshow" feature so one click cycles through the entire
gallery. Also, I've had a chance to hear a Weiss DAC on two separate occasions in a
music-server system. It may not be the one and only future, but it is clearly one of them.
Also, I love the new format. Im looking forward to
the shootout and how the new TWBAS 2009 compares to your MacBook-based rig.
Thanks for leading the way.
Jay Valancy
Speaker advice
February 11, 2009
Editor,
I was reading your thread on TWBAS 2009, and
some of your articles, and I wanted to know if I could ask you about speakers in the
$12k-$20k range. I never hear anyone mention KEF 207/2s or the 205/2s. Is that because
they don't measure up to other speakers in that range, such as Sonus Faber Cremonas or
Revel Studio 2s? I would appreciate some direction in terms of speakers in that range to
listen to. I currently have a two-channel system with Meadowlark Herons, a VAC 30/30 amp
and preamp, and a Cary 300 CD player. I have Synergistic speaker cables and interconnects.
Jason
I have heard the newest KEF speakers and they sound
fantastic. I absolutely do think they measure up to the speakers you mention, without
question. Dont confuse lack of press or consumer buzz with whether or not a speaker
is up to par. I can tell you that the SoundStage! Network reviewers who have auditioned
the KEFs have all come away impressed. Have a look at Albert
Bellgs review of the 203/2 for an example. I think the Revel and Sonus Faber
speakers are also worth auditioning, but certainly don't discount KEF....Jeff Fritz
Conrad-Johnson Premier 350 or...?
February 9, 2009
To Albert Bellg,
Could I ask if you know of a solid-state amp comparable to
the Conrad-Johnson Premier 350? I cannot find a Premier 350 anywhere! I have a CT-5 and
Esoteric MG-20 speakers.
Ken
If I were looking for a first-rate solid-state amp in
the price range of the Conrad-Johnson Premier 350, I'd start by thinking about what I'd
want the amp to do. Will it be driving speakers with 93dB sensitivity, or 83dB
sensitivity? Your Esoteric MG20s are wonderful speakers and have slightly
better-than-average 89dB sensitivity, so that opens you up to considering lower-watt
solid-state amps that function in class A. Also, are you twitchy about some specific
characteristic, such as bass performance, midrange clarity, or accurate acoustic timbres?
That might steer you toward some brands more than others.
Once you get a handle on what you want and need, read
reviews and listen to as many amp candidates as are available to you. It's not totally out
of the question to purchase an amp without having actually heard it. That's what I did
with the Premier 350. What made me confident that the Premier 350 was the amp I wanted was
the reading I'd done about it and other amps, and the fact that I'd owned a Conrad-Johnson
MF2500 a couple of years earlier and liked it a lot. Ultimately, your own ears need to be
happy with your decision, and no reviewer has the final word on that....Albert Bellg
The perfect amp for Peak Consult speakers?
February 6, 2009
Editor,
I've read what you have written about Vitus Audio, Pass
Labs and most recently the Classé Omega Omicron mono amps. Could you tell me how the
Simaudio W-8 fits in by comparison? I have the Simaudio P-8 preamp. I also have an ARC
Reference 3 sitting next to it. The challenge is to get the most out of Peak Consult
Zoltan speakers, which are a little dark, a little laid-back and don't have the
immediacy/presence of Wilson. They are sort of like Sonus Faber. Does the W-8 have a more
forward presentation or is it more laid-back like Vitus? I value a more forward and big
presentation, but I don't want to sacrifice shaded nuance, microdynamics and
"relaxed" virtues of both the Vitus Audio amp and the Zoltans.
Marty Williams
The Simaudio is not exactly laid-back, but it does
offer a warmer, bigger more fleshed-out sound. My thinking is that youd
like it with the Peak Consult speakers due to the increased size of soundstage it renders,
though it may not be the absolute best fit in terms of being immediate. The
Pass Labs amplifiers might be the most immediate of the bunch -- I likened them to a live
microphone feed in my review of them (X600.5 monos), and they really do seem to be what
youre looking for in that regard. The Classé amps have the most forward
presentation, particularly in the midrange, so they are certainly contenders too. Lastly,
the Vitus Audio amp is really dead neutral, so that is a good choice if youre not
looking to have the amplifier really impact the sound of your loudspeaker. I do know that
Vitus is often paired with Peak Consult, and I believe both brands use the other in their
own factory showrooms, a pretty good indication of how they work together. Really, all of
these amplifiers are excellent, truly cant-go-wrong propositions....Jeff Fritz
KOJ
February 3, 2009
Editor,
It was with great interest that I devoured your article on Keith
Johnson, aka KOJ, the brains behind Reference Recordings, Spectral electronics, and
now HRx, and one of the lowest-profile giants of the high-end digital world whom I knew
next to nothing about.
Nobody in my opinion (other than arguably Ed Meitner) in
early digital reproduction did as much to lift everything possible out of the severely
limited 16-bit digital medium, with such advances as HDCD and his brilliant work with
Spectral. Now Professor Johnson continues to forge ahead with HRx, allowing us to hear
ultra-high-sampling-rate, bit-for-bit, identical-to-the-masters spectacular recordings in
our own homes!
The promise of this new digital distribution medium brings
sound reproduction full circle to the genius of RR's early analog recordings like Däfos,
and hopefully ushers in a new era of possibility in the front-end digital space as they
open up the more of the RR catalog and, who knows, maybe someday (hopefully) even license
other labels' recordings to bring us closer to the music we all love.
Owen Lawlor
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